@shonalika's video has helped me get far more people interested in Mastodon than my own, far-too-tech-focused explanation ever could. It's not new, so y'all probably already know it, but those that don't should add it to their recruiting toolbox because it's amazing! :ms_blue_heart:


Good bid, but it does create the eimpression fefi is generally Nazi free, which isn't *necessarily* true

@plastiq To be fair to @shonalika, the situation wasn't quite as bad at the time they created the video (though I could be wrong; can't remember when Gab joined off the top of my head).
It largely depends on which instance the user joins, for sure. No instance is 100 % safe due to all the single-user instances popping up lately, but the ones with an active staff are at least much better off.
I feel like mostly there's still less of them than elsewhere, though with the recent moves they made I could be wrong. And at least, here, they are much more likely to get dealt with.

@plastiq It took me way too long to notice what instance you're on. :ms_facepalm:'s admins don't block anything, from what I recall. OK enough, if you can either tolerate that or don't mind blocking instances yourself. But you do get a much different view on the Fediverse than most other instances do, so if the number of nazis bothers you, perhaps it would be wise to move? Until then, well, you signed up on a hecking "free speech" instance; you get exactly what you asked for!
Shonalika, after all, did not say that there's no nazis on the Fediverse. They said that the nazis end up talking to themselves because the reasonable parts of the Fediverse block them.

Oh I'm aware of this instances policy, I have multiple accounts and do block instances myself if need be. I also have a lefty bubble account which is fairly sterile.

Its a lot more messy than there being a freeze peach fedi vs "reasonable" fedi, instances have varying degrees of what's acceptable, there does run a risk of anyone "talking to themselves" if they ban general instances with different values/priorities.

@plastiq I am with you there. We try not to go into such extremes over here. Block the troublemakers, but leave places like with piles upon piles of innocent users alone, and just do user-blocks there if need be. That's why I can eve chat with you right now; because we suspend based on actual amounts of problematic content, rather than just probability that there might be some.
I don't know if we've quite figured out the healthy medium. But there is one ... somewhere. Hopefully. :ms_thinking:

@Mayana but yes I agree that fedi offers more robust moderation than traditional centralized web servers

Its still tricky tho, like your average person isn't going to do too much research into their instance, especially if first join, the most popular are "general" apolitical instances, which may or may not federate with more reactionary outlets.

On a side note, there's this assumption people who are into Foss / decentralization are generally progressive, Im not sure how true that is

@plastiq That's true. You can influence the ones you're personally inviting, but that's about it. Just look at how many queer people joined Suspended by, so probably by several other places. It's quite possible that the reason is justified -- from what I understand, the logic for does have merit, what with unprofessional adminship and racism not being taken care of -- but still a shame.
Assumption of FOSS folks being generally progressive? Hah. I'm clearly far deeper in the lefty bubble than you are, because I basically never see that anymore. Fossbros get their fair share of criticism, too.

@plastiq Anyway, not much to be done but try and encourage those you know on big instances to switch to something else. Not all will see the point, but I have had some success so far.
And until then, well, we can't blame instances for doing what they feel is right and protecting their members. There's more than enough shitty spaces on the internet; perhaps a little bit of a lefty bubble can actually have positive effects as well from time to time, rather than just negative.

I'm all out the small instances, and there's nothing wrong with a "safe space" a group based on affinity with agreed upon rules, this is the essence of voluntary association, this also serves as a kind of "base" from which broader coordinated activity can be launched. . .


However, I think public general spaces should be actively contested , fash shouldn't be able to just show up, throw some slurs around and take over.

If we're going to use the internet politically, its not just about meeting like minded people ( of course this is good for friendship , theoretical development etc ) We want to influence people who are on the fence or uninitiated, to push the general consensus in a certain direction.

@plastiq If you have the energy for doing so, then go right ahead! Given people's huge stubbornness when it comes to changing their minds, it can be an exhausting endeavor, but you *can* help some people.
However, not everyone is cut out for this. And those that are can have enough eventually. I used to debate such people, for example, but it felt like ramming my head against a brick wall, so I currently don't wish to. Perhaps if I do in the future, I will make a outpost, too.
And I'm a relatively privileged person, mind you. BIPOC people especially get a lot more abuse. At that point, blocking seems like a better way of fighting back.

@Mayana true, not everyone can/should do this, I wouldnt ask poc to debate nazis, my god *sniff*

The thing about nazis+ is theyre thin skinned af and their rhetoric dont stand up to facts and logic. its possible to out-troll the trolls.

its not really about changing the mind of the mark - planting seed of doubt best outcome - it's about the spectacle and spectators . Publicly mocking and out debating these pricks serves as an example and destroys any mystique they're trying to project.

@plastiq The trouble with that is that I'm not sure it helps as much as we think it does. Sure, we're mocking them. But when engaging in such debates, what matters to them is not so much winning. It's OK if they lose. They have already proven that the issue being talked about is still "up for debate", and for uneducated lurkers fond of tone policing that might be enough already.

The trolling is for the trolls mind you, for the fence sitters, like typical Foss boi, in most cases a call-in is more effective than a call-out. What I mean is instead of dragging somebody having a sincere good faith discussion in is far more effective at actually changing minds, this is also approach one should take for say coworkers.

Rogerian argumentation is useful for that kind of thing.

@plastiq Good faith is only useful if it's displayed by both sides. I have had some success with it, for sure, but it is good to be careful and know when to back out.
And trolling is fun right up until you spend a little too long staring into the void of your soul and realize how pointless it all is and how limited your time on this planet is and ... ahem. Sorry. I'm not a particularly happy person. :ms_grinning:

I've probably put too much thought into this lol, I think if it like a game where one sharpen their rhetorical skills, also healthy outlet for sadomasochistic urges.


In especifismo there's this concept of interlocking circles, so in this case one can imagine a series of rings, small politically oriented instances federated with general left/lib ones, then with the broader apolitical "battle ground" zones of fedi

On Foss bois, its a strange mess of contradictions, many subscribe to anti-capitalist/corporate ideas, are disgusted by police brutality and when they're being serious they in principle are against racism/homophobia etc. But then they'll insist on their right to use various slurs and throw a tantrum if you "virtue signal". This is mainstream whiteness expressed in shows like south park or R&M, most are not fascists per se the fash can infiltrate these spaces easily

@Mayana @shonalika definitely an amazingly good addition to recruiting box!

@Mayana @shonalika Shared on Twitter as I just left it today after 10+ years on it.

@eastcoastweb Wonderful, thank you! Let's hope it helps someone. :ms_smile:

@Mayana @shonalika I actually hadn't seen this. I'm still fairly new to Mastodon. Thanks for sharing.

@jlamothe Oohh, welcome to Mastodon! I hope you'll like it here. :ms_big_smile:
One bit of advice: Trunk is an excellent resource and you should bookmark it.

@Mayana @shonalika I'm politically neutral, but I like the concept of Mastodon.

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