I'm close to moving back to Windows. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to hold oneself back, deny oneself better and easier accessibility in the name of open source, when many open source developers don't give a crap about accessibility, and/or don't educate themselves on it. KDE connect, GSConnect, all were inaccessible for one reason or another, not the least because of Gnome-shell's terrible accessibility issues. That was just the last straw. With the only thing holding me to Linux being Emacs+Emacspeak, I think its time to quit Linux and just use what actually works. It's interesting how being "free" just means being under the power and whim of other people, a mass of developers who have no insentive for accessibility, rather than a cohesive company who does. This is serious, and I want every developer to understand this, understand my deep frustration with FOSS.
@devinprater I feel accessibility is the least taught, least studied, least documented, least planned, and thus least applied aspect in general, which is a total shame.
@tagomago I mean, I don’t get it. Do FOSS devs not look at Apple, Microsoft and others, and go "oh hey, they’re doing that a11y thing, let’s look into that so our stuff can be used by lots more people."? But I’m barely a developer so there's probably tons more stuff higher on most devs’ list than that.
@lle_bout @tagomago Oh yeah, that thing. I think that's based on Debian? There's also linux-a11y.org, but I've been a Patron of theirs for a while, still, ugh like look at Gnome 40. The DE that Ubuntu, Fedora, and countless other distros come with. Like, I spent 10 minutes trapped in the top panel, tried all the keyboard commands for moving to something else, and none of them worked. Like, that was the tipping point. That this "modern", futuristic DE is so inaccessible, that just really showed me that Linux wasn't going to work. Because Gnome has the resources, the money, all that. They just, don't care.
@devinprater @tagomago I don't think you can expect all software to be accessible. I don't think GNOME, KDE, .. doesnt care, it's a complex problem with complex solutions. I don't think it's true that "GNOME has the money". It's great we could find some FOSS communities that care about accessibility, I think you can direct your problems to those communities and they will happily try to help!
@lle_bout @tagomago Did I say that I expect all software... well maybe I did shoot. I don't think you can understand just how frustrating it is to try to use the top desktop environment, only to find that it spits in your face and the developers don't regard you as a person valuable, or your minority valuable enough, to make even the shell accessible enough for use. I just, couldn't do it anymore. I mean, I want to freaking use my computer, and whoever (Linux, Windows, other (BSD)) provides that, I'm on it now. I have no more patience for great ideals that work for the 99%. I wish I could see. I really do. I'd probably be building computers and working for some good computer repair shop by now. Using Linux, playing Linux games, all that. But I can't. It sucks, it really does. But maybe this is a good thing, to highlight that FOSS devs don't have any accountability, and that a whole OS made of hobbies will likely never be good for any group of minorities. And that's sad.
@devinprater @tagomago I also have lots of frustration using Free Software, things don't always work. I think it is not constructive to complain like you do, there are other ways to say it. I think we cannot expect Free Software to always work, that's why there's no warranty. I think it is more constructive if you can describe the problems precisely to the relevant projects like GNOME and they will happily fix it. They do care, they just can't do everything.
@devinprater @tagomago You imply "nobody" cares in FOSS about accessibility, I don't think that's true, many people care, many people don't know also, but a sizeable amount of people do care, I think the concerns you have can be directed to the people who care like GNU/Linux distributions focused on accessibility. There's accessibility teams within GNOME, Debian, .. also. Bugs like what you said about gnome-shell do happen, but please report them to GNOME.
@devinprater @tagomago FOSS developers and especially volunteers are already very much overworked, there's lots of things to do, limited time. If maximum convenience is desired then probably for some use cases Microsoft Windows will be better, even with frustration I don't switch back to Microsoft Windows. I don't play games, I don't a lot of things. I think we must help each other, we don't see what your usage of a computer looks like, we can't test it.
@tagomago @devinprater I feel like I should be free to define my own priorities, I don't want to feel forced to do anything, studying and applying accessibility in systems would require me to invest myself full time on it always because I can very well see how it's a problem that affects every design decision. I don't feel like I can handle this amount of work. In GNU Guix I don't think anyone can ask for broad accessibility yet, the project's not ready.
@tagomago @devinprater And about accessibility in general I have heard stories from many people being quite successful so I think it's more so about the Free Software you choose to use than to say all Free Software is not accessible. I think there some extrapolation from individual painful issues, we all want to fix them I think, we just need help identifying them.
@tagomago @devinprater I contribute to FOSS for my own recreative pleasure, at times I don't think I even intend that anyone use the software I create. I also try to put more meaning in what I am doing but I already feel stressed with everything I can't handle more. If you were to ask for accessibility to me, I am not sure I am able to do it, even if it's important. I can't do everything. I am not paid by anyone.
@devinprater @tagomago Additionally about GNOME 40, it was *just* released, I don't think you can expect it to work for all use cases yet. There's a stabilization period in GNU/Linux distributions like Debian and others, where problems have more time to be discovered and fixed, don't use new bleeding edge software if you want things to always work.
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